我讀到了什么？

1. What is the shadows?? 這個(gè)問(wèn)題c,k,栗子，s, 壯都好像都有各自解答围俘。我沒(méi)有答案，只是找到Benjamin Jowett的這個(gè)版本里頭的句子

He will require to grow accustomed to the sight of the upper world. And first he will see the?shadows best, next the reflections of men and other objects in the water, and then the objects?themselves; then he will gaze upon the light of the moon and the stars and the spangled heaven; and?he will see the sky and the stars by night better than the sun or the light of the sun by day?

在寫shadows之前有段話

允許我搬運(yùn)下

ALLAN版本

Someone dragged him away from there byforce along the rough, steep, upward way and did not let him go before he haddragged him out into the light of the sun, wouldn’t he be distressed andannoyed at being so dragged? And when he came to the light, wouldn’t he havehis eyes full of its beam and be unable to see even one of the things now saidto be true?

另外一個(gè)版本

And suppose once more, that he isreluctantly dragged up a steep and rugged ascent, and held fast until he isforced into the presence of the sun himself, is he not likely to be pained andirritated? When he approaches the light his eyes will be dazzled, and he willnot be able to see anything at all of what are now called realities.

翻譯

“再說(shuō)，如果有人硬拉他走上一條陡峭崎嶇的坡道界牡，直到把他拉出洞穴見(jiàn)到了外面的陽(yáng)光簿寂，不讓他中途退回去，他會(huì)覺(jué)得這樣被強(qiáng)迫著走很痛苦宿亡，并且感到惱火常遂；當(dāng)他來(lái)到陽(yáng)光下時(shí)，他會(huì)覺(jué)得眼前金星亂蹦金蛇亂串挽荠，以致無(wú)法看見(jiàn)任何一個(gè)現(xiàn)在被稱為真實(shí)的事物的克胳。你不認(rèn)為會(huì)這樣嗎？

格：噢圈匆，的確不是一下子就能看得見(jiàn)的漠另。

蘇：因此我認(rèn)為，要他能在洞穴外面的高處看得見(jiàn)東西跃赚，大概需要有一個(gè)逐漸習(xí)慣的過(guò)程笆搓。首先大概看陰影是最容易，其次要數(shù)看人和其他東西在水中的倒影容易纬傲，再次是看東西本身满败；經(jīng)過(guò)這些之后他大概會(huì)覺(jué)得在夜里觀察天象和天空本身，看月光和星光比白天看太陽(yáng)和太陽(yáng)光容易嘹锁。

格：當(dāng)然啰葫录。

蘇：[…]”

摘錄來(lái)自:柏拉圖(Plato).“理想國(guó)(商務(wù)漢譯世界學(xué)術(shù)名著叢書)”。iBooks.

2. What is the function of educator? 教育工作者很熱愛(ài)自主天資又好的學(xué)生领猾，就像良田不用太多辛勞也能收獲滿滿米同，但是好像誰(shuí)說(shuō)過(guò)，能把最調(diào)皮的娃娃教好才是好老師摔竿，更何況 英語(yǔ)當(dāng)中有句話叫做For those who can't do,teach;for those who can't teach,teach gym.足以證明我當(dāng)老師的疑惑面粮，就是我的職責(zé)到底是啥？估計(jì)這個(gè)書給了點(diǎn)啟示继低，enlightener?or?Inspiration?? Maybe the answer is here

告知各位熬苍，其實(shí)每個(gè)個(gè)體學(xué)習(xí)能力都存在，是何時(shí)何地被何人喚醒而已袁翁，不知這個(gè)人是不是你的老師而已柴底。the power and capacity of learning exists in the soul already;（然后我說(shuō)下，我對(duì)比了兩個(gè)英文版本allan和benjamin的粱胜，而且也貼了中文柄驻，權(quán)當(dāng)我是個(gè)搬運(yùn)工。而且對(duì)我而言benjamin的版本英文好讀點(diǎn)）

ALLAN版本

We must hold the following about thesethings:education is not what the professions of certain men assert it to?be.They presumably assert that they put into the soul knowledge that isn’tin it, as though they were putting sight into blind eyes.

另外一版本But then, if I am right, certain professors of education must bewrong when they say that they can put a knowledge into the soul which was notthere before, like sight into blind eyes.

“蘇：如果這是正確的焙压，那么關(guān)于這些事鸿脓，我們就必須有如下的看法：教育實(shí)際上并不像某些人在自己的職業(yè)中所宣稱的那樣抑钟。他們宣稱，他們能把靈魂里原來(lái)沒(méi)有的知識(shí)灌輸?shù)届`魂里去野哭，好像他們能把視力放進(jìn)瞎子的眼睛里去似的在塔。”

摘錄來(lái)自:柏拉圖(Plato).“理想國(guó)(商務(wù)漢譯世界學(xué)術(shù)名著叢書)”拨黔。iBooks.

另外一版本W(wǎng)hereas,our argument shows that the power and capacity of?learning exists in the soul already;and that just as the eye was unable toturn from darkness to light without the whole body, so too the instrument ofknowledge can only by the movement of the whole soul be turned from the worldof becoming into that of being, and learn by degrees to endure the sight ofbeing, and of the brightest and best of being, or in other words, of the good.

Allan版本

But the present argument, on the otherhand, I said, indicates that this power is in the soul of each, and that theinstrument with which each learns-just as an eye is not able to turn toward thelight from the dark without the whole body- must be turned around from thatwhichis coming into beingtogether with the whole soul until it is ableto endure looking at that which is and the brightest part of that which is. Andwe affirm that this is the good, don’t we?

翻譯

“蘇：但是我們現(xiàn)在的論證說(shuō)明蛔溃，知識(shí)是每個(gè)人靈魂里都有的一種能力，而每個(gè)人用以學(xué)習(xí)的器官就像眼睛蓉驹〕情唬——整個(gè)身體不改變方向，眼睛是無(wú)法離開(kāi)黑暗轉(zhuǎn)向光明的态兴。同樣狠持，作為整體的靈魂必須轉(zhuǎn)離變化世界，直至它的“眼睛”得以正面觀看實(shí)在瞻润，觀看所有實(shí)在中最明亮者喘垂，即我們所說(shuō)的善者。是這樣吧绍撞？”

摘錄來(lái)自:柏拉圖(Plato).“理想國(guó)(商務(wù)漢譯世界學(xué)術(shù)名著叢書)”正勒。iBooks.

3. What is the difference between “coming into being “ vs “being“??

提這個(gè)問(wèn)題是因?yàn)樯先畏窒砣说淖詈笠痪湓捵屛也唤?/p>

而且我并未有答案,而且我感覺(jué)很多時(shí)候，就像那個(gè)單詞shadow或是coming into being或是being 隨著這個(gè)單口相聲的書的行進(jìn)傻铣，感覺(jué)每次格附和一次贊同一次章贞，即便同一個(gè)單詞，又比上一個(gè)議題里談?wù)摰母钜淮畏侵蕖６姨K很黑的是鸭限，當(dāng)我快看完這一整章節(jié)，才明白了這個(gè)study劃分的意義所在两踏。談及這四個(gè)層面的原因在于four divisions; two for intellect and two for opinion, and to call thefirst division science, the second understanding, the third belief, and the fourth perception of shadows败京。這里再次出現(xiàn)perception of shadows讓我不自覺(jué)聯(lián)想起這一章開(kāi)頭提及的shadows.所以還原到第一個(gè)問(wèn)題什么是shadows，我只能說(shuō)沒(méi)答案梦染。

Study for the young

First study:calculation 算術(shù)

Second study: plane geometry平面幾何

Third study: solid geometry立體幾何

Fourth study: astronomy天體學(xué)

Why indeed, he said, when any name will dowhich expresses the thought of the mind with clearness?

At any rate, we are satisfied, as before,to have four divisions; two for intellect and two for opinion, and to call thefirst division science, the second understanding, the third belief, and the fourth perception of shadows, opinion being concerned with becoming, and intellect with being; and so to make a proportion:—

As being is to becoming, so is pureintellect to opinion. And as intellect is to opinion, so is science to belief,and understanding to the perception of shadows.

But let us defer the further correlationand subdivision of the subjects of opinion and of intellect, for it will be along enquiry, many times longer than this has been.

ALLAN版本

Just as before, to call the first partknowledge, the second thought, the third trust, and the fourth imagination; andthe latter two taken together, opinion, and the former two, intellection. Andopinion has to do with coming into being and intellection with being; and as being is to coming into being, so is intellection to opinion; and asintellection is to opinion, so is knowledge to trust and thought toimagination. But as for the proportion between the things over which these areset and the division into two parts of each- the opinable and the intelligible-let’s let that go, Glaucon,so as not to run afoul of arguments many timeslonger than those that have been gone through.

“那么讓我們滿足于前面用過(guò)的那些個(gè)名稱吧赡麦，[12]把第一部分叫做知識(shí)，第二部分叫做理智帕识，第三部分叫做信念泛粹，第四部分叫做想象；又把第三部分和第四部分合稱意見(jiàn)肮疗，把第一部分和第二部分合稱理性晶姊；意見(jiàn)是關(guān)于產(chǎn)生世界的，理性是關(guān)于實(shí)在的族吻；理性和意見(jiàn)的關(guān)系就像實(shí)在和產(chǎn)生世界的關(guān)系帽借，知識(shí)和信念的關(guān)系、理智和想象的關(guān)系也像理性和意見(jiàn)的關(guān)系超歌。至于和這些靈魂?duì)顟B(tài)對(duì)應(yīng)的事物之間的關(guān)系砍艾，以及它們?cè)俑骷?xì)分為兩部分，能意見(jiàn)的部分和能理知的部分巍举。這些問(wèn)題脆荷，格勞孔，我們還是別去碰它吧懊悯，免得我們被卷進(jìn)一場(chǎng)更長(zhǎng)時(shí)間的辯論中去蜓谋。”

摘錄來(lái)自:柏拉圖(Plato).“理想國(guó)(商務(wù)漢譯世界學(xué)術(shù)名著叢書)”炭分。iBooks.

4. Why the name of the book called THEREPUBLIC? 我只是有點(diǎn)點(diǎn)理解為啥這本書叫理想國(guó)桃焕，如果是self-taught 一撥人還好沒(méi)義務(wù)責(zé)任回到下面，來(lái)協(xié)調(diào)管理city,但如果是另外一種情況也就是國(guó)家培養(yǎng)的就必須適應(yīng)捧毛，從而更好管理國(guó)家观堂。還有一點(diǎn)私人感想，這里所提及動(dòng)political life并非我之前的偏見(jiàn)概念呀忧，讀后刷新了這個(gè)term在我內(nèi)心的地位师痕。原來(lái)這確實(shí)是個(gè)偉大的事業(yè)。刷新三觀關(guān)于Political life句子如下

who else will you compel to go to theguarding of the city than the men who are most prudent in those things throughwhich a city is best governed, and who have other honors and a better life thanthe political life?

下面繼續(xù)搬運(yùn)而账，滿滿看吧胰坟，各位。特意強(qiáng)調(diào)下這句that it ‘s not theconcern of law that any one class in the city as a whole, harmonizing the citizens by persuasion and compulsion, making them share with one another the benefit that each is able to bring to the commonwealth.

看到時(shí)候明白原來(lái)每個(gè)公民身上的不可推卸的social or republic responsibility 在這里有體現(xiàn)泞辐。

“蘇：那么笔横，格勞孔，你得看到铛碑，我們對(duì)我們之中出現(xiàn)的哲學(xué)家也不會(huì)是不公正的狠裹；我們強(qiáng)迫他們關(guān)心和護(hù)衛(wèi)其他公民的主張也是公正的。我們將告訴他們：“哲學(xué)家生在別的國(guó)家中有理由拒不參加辛苦的政治工作汽烦，因?yàn)樗麄兺耆亲园l(fā)地產(chǎn)生的涛菠，不是政府有意識(shí)地培養(yǎng)造就的；一切自力更生不是被培養(yǎng)而產(chǎn)生的人才不欠任何人的情撇吞，因而沒(méi)有熱切要報(bào)答培育之恩的心情俗冻，那是正當(dāng)?shù)摹５俏覀円呀?jīng)培養(yǎng)了你們——既為你們自己也為城邦的其他公民——做蜂房中的蜂王和領(lǐng)袖牍颈；你們受到了比別人更好更完全的教育迄薄，有更大的能力參加兩種生活[2]。因此你們每個(gè)人在輪值時(shí)必須下去和”“其他人同住煮岁，習(xí)慣于觀看模糊影像讥蔽。須知涣易，一經(jīng)習(xí)慣你就會(huì)比他們看得清楚不知多少倍的，就能辨別各種不同的影子并且知道影子所反映的東西的冶伞，因?yàn)槟阋呀?jīng)看見(jiàn)過(guò)美者新症、正義者和善者的真實(shí)。因此我們的國(guó)家將被我們和你們清醒地管理著响禽，而不是像如今的大多數(shù)國(guó)家那樣被昏昏然地管理著徒爹，被那些為影子而互相毆斗，為權(quán)力——被當(dāng)作最大的善者——而相互爭(zhēng)吵的人統(tǒng)治著芋类。事實(shí)是：在凡是被定為統(tǒng)治者的人最不熱心權(quán)力的城邦里必定有最善最穩(wěn)定的管理隆嗅，凡有與此相反的統(tǒng)治者的城邦里其管理必定是最惡的『罘保”

Observe, Glaucon, that there will be noinjustice in compelling our philosophers to have a care and providence ofothers; we shall explain to them that in other States, men of their class arenot obliged to share in the toils of politics: and this is reasonable, for theygrow up at their own sweet will, and the government would rather not have them.Being self-taught, they cannot be expected to show any gratitude for a culture?which they have never received. But we have brought you into the world to be rulers of the hive, kings of yourselves and of the other citizens, and have educated you far better and more perfectly than they have been educated, and you are better able to share in the double duty. Wherefore each of you, whenhis turn comes, must go down to the general underground abode, and get thehabit of seeing in the dark. When you have acquired the habit, you will see tenthousand times better than the inhabitants of the den, and you will know whatthe several images are, and what they represent, because you have seen thebeautiful and just and good in their truth. And thus our State, which is alsoyours, will be a reality, and not a dream only, and will be administered in aspirit unlike that of other States, in which men fight with one another aboutshadows only and are distracted in the struggle for power, which in their eyesis a great good. Whereas the truth is that the State in which the rulers aremost reluctant to govern is always the best and most quietly governed, and theState in which they are most eager, the worst.

另外一版本You have again forgotten, my friend, I said, the intention of thelegislator, who did not aim at making any one class in the State happy abovethe rest; the happiness was to be in the whole State, and he held the citizenstogether by persuasion and necessity, making them benefactors of the State, andtherefore benefactors of one another; to this end he created them, not toplease themselves, but to be his instruments in binding up the State.

My friend, you have again forgotten, Isaid, that it ‘s not theconcern of law that any one class in the city as a?whole, harmonizing the citizens by persuasion and compulsion, making them share with one another the benefit that each is able to bring to the commonwealth.

“蘇：朋友胖喳，你又忘了，我們的立法不是為城邦任何一個(gè)階級(jí)的特殊幸福巫击，而是為了造成全國(guó)作為一個(gè)整體的幸福禀晓。它運(yùn)用說(shuō)服或強(qiáng)制，使全體公民彼此協(xié)調(diào)和諧坝锰，使他們把各自能向集體提供的利益讓大家分享粹懒。而它在城邦里造就這樣的人，其目的就在于讓他們不致各行其是顷级，把他們團(tuán)結(jié)成為一個(gè)不可分的城邦公民集體凫乖。”

摘錄來(lái)自:柏拉圖(Plato).“理想國(guó)(商務(wù)漢譯世界學(xué)術(shù)名著叢書)”弓颈。iBooks.

最后兩點(diǎn)補(bǔ)充帽芽，一是翻譯相關(guān)的，另外一個(gè)是漏了的英文

翻譯很有意思的點(diǎn)

“so it seems,“ he said.翻譯為“格：很可能有這種技巧翔冀〉冀郑”

技巧在于肯定教育的功能時(shí)候同時(shí)用這個(gè)sight的類比

What studies have such a power?

Would be a study to draw the soul frombecoming to being? Weren’t we saying that it’s necessary for these men to be championsin war when they are young?

Whats the qualification of being achampions?

Our guardian is both warrior and philosopher

還有個(gè)問(wèn)題，如下句中的一個(gè)短語(yǔ)：

This wouldn’t be theTwirling of a?shell??but the turning of a soul around from a day that is like night tothe true day

典故easy?這里twirling of a shell 應(yīng)是簡(jiǎn)單的意思纤子？有典故么搬瑰？因?yàn)槲宜丫尤挥羞@個(gè)小孩子的翻貝殼游戲。

居然差點(diǎn)忘了寫讀到這時(shí)候腦袋里就三個(gè)字：敬畏感

他用的詞是craftsman of heaven來(lái)代指creator

原始句子allan版本這樣寫he will hold that the craftsman of heaven composed it and whats in it as beautifully as such works can be composed

Motion, I said, has many forms, and not one only; two of them are obvious enough even to wits no better than ours; and there are others, as I imagine, which may be left to wiser persons.

But where are the two?

There is a second, I said, which is the counterpart of the one already named. And what may that be?

The second, I said, would seem relatively to the ears to be what the first is to the eyes; for I conceive that as the eyes are designed to look up at the stars, so are the ears to hear harmonious motions; and these are sister sciences—as the Pythagoreans say, and we, Glaucon, agree with them?

“蘇：照我看控硼，運(yùn)動(dòng)不是只有一種而是有多種泽论。列舉所有運(yùn)動(dòng)種類這或許是哲人的事情，但即使是我們卡乾，也能說(shuō)出其中兩種來(lái)翼悴。

格：哪兩種？

蘇：一是剛才說(shuō)的這個(gè)天文學(xué)幔妨，另一是和它成對(duì)的東西鹦赎。

格：是什么呢谍椅？

蘇：我認(rèn)為我們可以說(shuō)，正如眼睛是為天文而造的那樣古话，我們的耳朵是為和諧的聲音而造的毯辅；這兩個(gè)學(xué)科，正如畢達(dá)哥拉斯派所主張煞额，我們也贊同的那樣，格勞孔沾谜，它們是兄弟學(xué)科膊毁。對(duì)嗎？”

摘錄來(lái)自: 柏拉圖 (Plato). “理想國(guó) (商務(wù)漢譯世界學(xué)術(shù)名著叢書)”基跑。 iBooks.